[CIG-LONG] Fwd: CIG-LONG Digest, Vol 47, Issue 2
Laetitia Le Pourhiet
laetitia.le_pourhiet at upmc.fr
Wed Oct 20 08:33:52 PDT 2010
Hi all,
I was intrigued by all this problems with thermal diffusion...
I don't understand why this limitation for the time step is not included
in gale, I guess it is historical since diffusion is negligible for
convection problem and gale is based on underworld but as Charmaine
showed, it is not negligible for post-rift simulation.
Anyway
I found that FiniteElementContext.c contains a parameter we can all use
for the moment to limit the time step without using the very dangerous
dt parameter...
context->maxTimeStepSize = Dictionary_GetDouble_WithDefault(
self->dictionary, (Dictionary_Entry_Key)"maxTimeStepSize", 0.0 );
So providing that function is really used in Gale, it means that
everybody has to compute by hand its diffusion timestep i.e. :
dt_diff = sqrt(min_length_of_a cell)/max_diffusivity_in_your_model...
and add
<param name="maxTimeStepSize">dt_diff</param> in your xml ....
to their xml
I think we should all include that in our simulation because for a 3km
mesh and a diffusivity of 1e-6 it makes a timestep of 300ka which is
about or a little bit less than what I get with dtfactor=0.5 for a
1cm/year crustal extension problem.
hope this help
Laetitia
Charmaine Thomas wrote:
> Hi Walter,
>
> I did a series of experiments to get Gale to do pure thermal
> conductivity problems without having a non-zero velocity boundary
> applied to the right/left walls, ie velocity=0.
>
> Firstly I tried turning off the Stokes flow and the uzawa condition,
> and although everything ran very smoothly and quickly, it took
> ridiculously big timesteps, despite having an explicitly set 'dt' (I
> assumed later that Stokes flow has to be turned on for this parameter
> to kick in?). This predictably resulted in very high temperatures. I
> had to do this experiment because I was dealing with non-newtonian
> rheologies, and needed to model a time of quiescence in my crust.
>
> Finally I found the best option was to leave the Stokes/uzawa stuff
> turned on and to apply either a very low strain-rate, or set the
> right/left velocities as zero, but also have a right and left wall
> stress boundary condition. This second option runs smoothly even with
> non-newtonian rheologies, and takes more reasonably sized timesteps -
> I could also try changing the dtfactor to speed things up. So does
> this method sound more reasonable? Is there a better way?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Charmaine Thomas
> School of Geosciences | University of Sydney
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Walter Landry
> <walter at geodynamics.org <mailto:walter at geodynamics.org>> wrote:
>
> <Guillaume.Duclaux at csiro.au> wrote:
> > Indeed.
> >
> > But, shouldn't it be possible to solve purely thermal problem with
> > Gale? (let's pretend the thermal expansion is null is Nicolas'
> > problem). ie a sill at a temperature of 1000 K has intruded a mass
> > of rock at constant temperature (600 K) and I want to simulate the
> > thermal evolution of the system as I change the thickness of the
> > dyke or the radiogenic heat production of one or the other material.
>
> It is possible to do pure thermal conductivity problems with Gale.
> You have to turn off all of the Stokes flow stuff, but it does seem to
> work.
>
> > To ensure the solver timestepping is not missing the temperature
> > perturbation timescale, how should the time be scaled?
> > I guess viscosity doesn't matter if the problem is purely thermal,
> > but as soon as the thermal expansion is on, some body forces act too
> > creating some 'slow' displacement.
>
> For this particular case, the displacement is so slow that it can be
> neglected. If you still want to solve the Stokes flow, then you can
> set the timestep explicitly with 'dt' (see Appendix A.1.4). Gale
> should probably take the thermal diffusivity into account when
> deciding upon a timestep, but it does not do that now.
>
> Cheers,
> Walter Landry
> walter at geodynamics.org <mailto:walter at geodynamics.org>
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